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By serge.nelissen

November 24, 2021, 6:34 pm

Custom speeds and feeds

My tool supplier uses 24 tables (A through X) for chip loads (Fz). Therefore it would be handy to use these 24 tables in HSMAdvisor, but I can't for 2 reasons: the cutting speed is associated with the table AND the name of the table is used in 'Series Name'.

It would be MUCH better to leave 'Series Name' alone and associate the data in an invisible way. Also create 'Custom Tables' without a cutting speed and use the Custom tables list box in a different way:

1 'Automatic' -> as now

2 'Specific' -> fill in the chip loads in the 'Custom Speeds and Feeds' dialog

3 A named custom table which fills in the chip loads which are read only and greyed in the dialog.



And... I would NOT associate the specific custom tables with a material. My supplier uses a different letter (A through X) depending on the material.



I would also suggest adding Generic Materials in the Material Database (ISO materials P11, P12, ... M21, ... K31, ...). That way it is easier to choose a material with comparable hardness and less work to maintain Customfeeds ans speeds. Now one has to create new data even for materials with comparable hardness.

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serge.nelissen

November 24, 2021, 6:57 pm

My remark 'leave 'Series Name' alone and associate the data in an invisible way' is not right. It should be 'don't associate the name of a 'Custom Table' with 'Series Name'. In other words, after choosing a Custom Table, leave the 'Series Name' alone.

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Eldar Gerfanov

November 25, 2021, 2:49 pm
Updated by: Eldar GerfanovNovember 28, 2021, 3:48 am

Hi, Please attach some sample files or tables your manufacturer provides.

PS. How do you manage to double-post comments? Does it happen when you use back/forward buttons on your browser??

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serge.nelissen

November 25, 2021, 4:51 pm

Double post... no idea, I hit the 'Comment' button and it appeared twice. I was working on a Windows 11 laptop.

Chip loads IMG_0146.jpg.JPG
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Eldar Gerfanov

November 25, 2021, 5:15 pm

Some of it can be implemented. Other things.... What are thse A-Z again?

Most (99%) of manufacturers specify cutting data in the format that I implemented in the app. I can't change it mid way so something like this and then have to support 2 systems.

You can assign custom S&F to material groups.

I will make a note to add some sort of rules to modify values according to material hardness and what not. Like sometimes they write (for material hardness > 45 reduce the speed by 50%)

I will also add iso group descriptions in to the material DB.

Not many people are using custom tables. The existing speeds and feeds engine is good enough without them. That is the whole purpose of it.

So there is not gonna be any major changes there.

Best regards.

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serge.nelissen

November 25, 2021, 5:50 pm

What are thse A-Z again?
Every tool series has for each material group (ISO) a letter that refers to a table with feeds for each diameter. For instance the tool series in the picture...

For material group P13, it has a surface speed between 125 and 140 mm/min and the chip loads can be found in table I

For material group M22, it has a surface speed of 65 to 80 and it uses table H.

I believe this system is compatible with your 99%, in the end it results in traditional chip load tables, only via an extra step (table letter).

So as it is now in HSMAdvisor, I have to define the chip loads for EVERY tool series over and over again, while in reality there are only 24 possible chip load tables. I'm only asking to have the ability to define chip load tables that are not related to a tool but that can be used by the feeds/speeds dialog. And to minimise modifications to the software, you could just copy the data from these tables to the one in the dialog (instead of using a reference).

IMG_0149.JPG IMG_0149.JPG
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serge.nelissen

November 25, 2021, 6:20 pm

In fact, the way you use the custom tables created in the list box of the dialog are almost usable except you shouldn't modify the surface speed and the series name. In fact I don't really get the purpose of these custom tables since the dialog itself already has chip loads in its own table.

The more I think about it... these custom tables can do the trick if and only if : no cutting speed and series name are overwritten.

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Eldar Gerfanov

November 25, 2021, 8:23 pm

Perhaps I. Missing something.

But why can't you just set it up the following way:

Brand Name: MyToolMfg

Series Name: A

That's it!

If I am not mistaken, this will accomplish exactly what you are trying to do.

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serge.nelissen

November 26, 2021, 4:17 am

Almost right but...

- the table is associated with a material

- the table and cutting speed are tight together

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serge.nelissen

November 26, 2021, 5:19 pm

Tied... not tight :-)

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serge.nelissen

November 26, 2021, 5:58 pm

Why don't you simply add a check box 'Generic' to this screen? Such a table doesn't modify the 'Series Name' or the cutting speed.

Brand Name ______________________

[X] Generic

Table Name _______________________ (read only when unchecked)

Series Name ________________________ (read only when checked)

Insert Name ________________________ (read only when checked)

2021-11-26 (3).png 2021-11-26 (3).png
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Eldar Gerfanov

November 27, 2021, 2:41 am
Updated by: Eldar GerfanovNovember 28, 2021, 3:48 am

Quote:
Why don't you simply add a check box 'Generic' to this screen? Such a table doesn't modify the 'Series Name' or the cutting speed.

I won't do it because it doesn't make sense to me a the moment. You can already define the "Plantom-L" tables.

Then you enter the tool into the speeds and feeds page, and just select the table from the Custom Tables drop-down...

This way you can immediately apply the table you want to the currently entered tool data:

Capture_Phantom.PNG Capture_Phantom.PNG
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serge.nelissen

November 27, 2021, 6:58 am

Well Eldar, it's not to me to tell you how to solve this. But... your proposition doesn't work:

1. Choosing a table implies a cutting speed. There should be no relation between them. Two different tools can share the same table yet can have different cutting speeds.

2. The tables should be INDEPENDANT of the material. When I define a table for a certain material, I cannot use this table for another material, because the table data is modified by the program. It's perfectly possible that a tool uses a table for a certain material while another tool uses the same table for another material.

3. Tables defined for a certain tool TYPE (i.e. Solid End Mill) are not available for another tool type (i.e. Roughing End Mill).

Thanks for thinking it over,

Serge

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Eldar Gerfanov

November 27, 2021, 11:32 am

Serge, Thank you for explaining. I understand now what you want to do, but changing HSMAdvisor to do that would require a lot of work for questionable benefit.

From the side of the manufacturer it does make a lot of sense. They can just say "hey, for this tool and that material just use table B for chip load and and speed 150m/min"...

But no one else uses this system.

It's true that it requires less space on the catalogue and does not have any repetition, but it also requires a junction table to implement the many-to-many relationship. From the UI/UX perspective it would be a lot harder to explain to people than the simple Brand/Series relationship....

Perhaps this is the reason most manufacturers still use the the verbose system.

Sorry. Just can't to that at the moment.

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serge.nelissen

November 27, 2021, 6:00 pm

And what about a "Paste from" button that copies and pastes data from a textfile? I can make text files A.txt through X.txt, put them in the HSMAdvisor user directory and the paste from button opens a file explorer window for *.txt (or whatever specific extension you want).

If you don't want to alter the interface, implement 'Alt+Paste'.

And please, initialize the material in the 'Custom Speeds and Feeds' dialog with the material from main window (and not Very soft low-carbon steels).

Thanks,

Serge

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Eldar Gerfanov

November 27, 2021, 9:37 pm

Sarge,

Sounds like you need an excel sheet or something to accomplish what you want outside of HSMAdvisor.

If I were you and still wanted to use manufacturer data I would just save exact tools with whatever speed/feed override manufacturer suggests and not even touch the custom tables.

Are you getting better/much different results using your manufacturers suggestions than HSMAdvisor's? If so then all you need use an excel sheet.

Best regards.

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