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By Otter

August 16, 2014, 9:26 pm

Hard to define tool types

I am really enjoying HSMAdvisor, apart from the tedious task of entering a fairly broad spectrum of tool bits.

Most of my metal working bits fit right in and define quite easily. It is the crazy wood working ones that seem to bend the system the most.
Sadly my ignorance becomes quite apparent when I am trying to classify and define these tools. Here are a few tools that I am having a rough time defining and they might not give good results after defining them due to the math not matching.

I will list a few with way too much data:

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First off the Bowl Router Bit. Basically just the edge of a really large ball end. My use is to contour a rough surface such as a mandolin top. With the large gradual curve on the tool, a very few passes can make a reasonably smooth surface that can be quickly sanded to a nice form. I am pretty sure I am not pushing it anywhere near it's capacity, and I am not sure I want to, but I would love to know the limits of the thing. Do I call it a crazy huge ball end?

Bowl Router Bit (1.75 inch)
1-3/4 in. (1.75 in)
1.40 in. max DOC 4.0 in. OAL
1.65"radius curve bit 1/2" shank
Yonico 16170
Small Bowl Router Bit - 1.65" Radius - 1-3/4" Wide - 1/2" Shank -Yonico 16170

Use the Yonico 16170 router bit to create a 1.65" radius concave bowl or crater-like indents at 1-3/4" diameter across and 1/4" deep. May be plunged deeper to create side walls or shallower for a smaller diameter. Blades meet in the center allowing true vertical plunging. CNC compatible. 1/16" thick carbide.

Our router bits are manufactured using solid hardened steel and C3 micro grain carbide. (C3 grade carbide is the highest grade used in the router bit industry) The result is a highly durable bit that can be utilized for the most rigorous industrial applications. Precise, designer profiles create smooth and detailed cuts, perfect for projects of any level of complexity. Our bits are the preferred choice of professionals and hobbyists alike.
Design Anti-kickback
Balance +/- .003" tolerance (allowing smooth operation at high RPMs)
Body Solid Hardened Steel
Blade Industrial grade micro grain carbide
Cutter CNC ground to a 600 grit, mirror-like finish
Hook & Shear Angles High hook & shear angles allow cutters to slice smoothly into stock producing clean, splinter free.
Bearing Totally enclosed & lubricated
Coating Baked on heat resistant coating prevents build-up of sawdust, resin, and pitch.

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My second puzzler is the fish tail bit. I think it is a roughing bit but I am not quite sure if it is a roughing bit. It ain't a corn cob by any means.

precisebits.com
Sheet goods, furniture, signage
1/4 in. (0.250 in 6.350 mm)
1.40 in. max DOC 3.0 in. OAL
DeepReach Fish-tail End-mill 1/4" shank
MM204-2500-140FL $32.56
2 Flute
1k RPM to 60k RPM
min 10,000 in Anticipated Life (western red cedar)


1/4 in. (0.250 in 6.350 mm) ZrN coated DeepReach Fish-tail End-mill 2-flute 1.40 in. max DOC 3.0 in. OAL
Item # MM204-2500-140FC
precisebits.com
$38.88 USD
DeepReach 1/4" (0.250 in.) Shank High Aspect-ratio 2-Flute Fish-tail End-mills

Specifications

Geometry - 2 flute, 1/4 in. (6.35 mm) shank, fish-tail tip
Length - as indicated ±0.010 in.
Diameter - nominal +0.0000 -0.0010 in.
Runout (TIR) - max 0.0002 in.
Max. depth of cut - nominal ±0.020 in.
Anticipated Life - depends on material being cut (min 10,000 in, western red cedar)
Material - solid submicrograin carbide
Operating RPM - CNC certified operation 1k RPM to 60k RPM

Benefits

Fish tail point eliminates backside breakout and splintering
High flute volume supports high feed rates / chip loads
High aspect ratio for deep single-pass cutting

Applications

Dimensional signage
3D contouring
Cabinetry, furniture making
3D modeling and pattern making
Steel rule die blankers and strippers

DeepReach 1/4" Shank End-mills
(sign foam, sign board (HDU), gator board, red wood, WRC)

These tools are the first in a series of deep cutting end-mills optimized for shaping the sheet goods commonly used in the manufacture of dimensional signage. The flute geometry has been tuned to insure smooth cutting and low deflection under high chip loads.

Designed to work together, the fish tail bit is a high-performance roughing tool while the ball cutter is intended for clean-up and fine surface finishing. Nonetheless, both bits can be used as stand-alone cutters for single pass, high-speed cutting and shaping.



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Third on my list of hard to specify for best behavior is the Drill-Mill, my guess is that I call it an end mill or a V-Bit engraver.

Enco KE326-0200 $6.39 1
1/8X1/8X1/2X1-1/2 60D CARB 2FL SE DRILL MILL
2 flute center cutting drill point 60 degree end mill for chamfering, countersinking, Drilling, Side Milling and Spotting
made by Melin, endmill.com
60 degree drill point
Mill Diameter (Inch): 1/8; (Decimal Inch): 0.1250
Number of Flutes: 2
Shank 1/8"
Material: Solid Carbide
Length of Cut (Inch): 1/2; (Decimal Inch): 0.5000
OAL 1 1/2"
Tolerance:+.000/-.002"
AMG-404-DP60
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The fourth on the list is a carving bit. With an 11 degree angle over 5/8" It can carve over half an inch deep with a nice taper. For deep detail carving this is an important enough tool. The problem is how do you define it for maximum efficiency without pushing it to the breaking point. I am not even sure how to test one of these properly. Probably a V-Groove but I have several quite different V-Groove tools that will end up looking like they are exactly the same tools apart from the notes. Do all tapered tools with the same base diameter act the same? I am pretty sure this plunged 0.2" deeper in a previously cut groove will see more load than a 60 degree V-Groove plunged the same depth will experience.

Whiteside SC50
Carving Liner
11 degree x 5/8" cl
1/4" shank
$21.60
MADE FROM SOLID ALLOY STEEL
PRECISION GROUND FOR PROPER BALANCE AT HIGH RPMS
MADE WITH THICK CARBIDE FOR EXTRA SHARPENINGS
USES THE HIGHEST QUALITY AMERICAN MADE MICROGRAIN CARBIDE








Answers:
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Eldar Gerfanov (Admin)

August 16, 2014, 10:55 pm

Now, that is Tough!

I am going to look into it.
If i don't come back to you, please keep bugging me!

But i am afraid it warrants adding a whole new group of tools types just for wood working.

If you want me to add them, you will have to tell me exactly how you use them and what cutting speed and feeds are OK.
Very often wood tool manufacturers are extremely vague.

Attached in a screenshot of what i got for the very first cutter.

IMO the cutting speed is a bit low (you can change that by saving it into the library with Custom Cutting speeds and feeds).
And the tool graphic look extremely weird. I guess it is hard for my program to know what user means when he enters something like that.


1.65R cutter wood_round.PNG
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Otter

August 17, 2014, 11:00 am

The truth is, I bought HSMAdvisor for metal working specifications and it is doing a wonderful job of giving me solid starting points for work. There is however a nice big and growing market out there that is carving wood with CNC, so being able to answer the oddball questions might be worth your investment in time. Then again, wood can get strange. Grain and tear out are nightmare variables. If you are trying for accuracy, drilling requires pecking to remove chips and endgrain drilling requires bits more like a gun drill to prevent drift.

Metal working has enough strange materials that can vex a machinist, aluminum bronze and work hardening steel are two that come to mind instantly. Woodworking however is filled with this sort of minefield.

Bob

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